Helico PILOT PROFILE XV Len Sabato

September 2002 Issue Cover Len with his fathers original Jet ranger model at the AMA Museum

Helico has the pleasure to interview Len Sabato besides being highly placed at the US Nationals he is the responsible manager for JR Radio and Heli Divisions at Horizon Hobby USA. Many thanks for sharing your ideas with us and for spending your time on this Interview.

1) First our readers would like to know who you are? (age, family, profession, place you live , etc.)

Well Andy, my name is Len Sabato. I am 37 years old, and I am married to my wife Sandy for the past 7 years. I am currently the JR Product Manager for Horizon Hobby, covering both the Radio and Heli divisions. Sandy and I live in the state of Illinois, in a small town called Pesotum. Pesotum is located 20 minutes south of Champaign where Horizon Hobby is based. I moved to Pesotum so that I could live out in the farm country, and have my own personal flying field at my house.

2) How did get into the hobby?

My father, Len Sr. started flying RC Airplanes back in the mid 1960's, so I have been around RC as long as I can remember. RC is truly a part of me. I started with RC Boats and cars, then to Airplanes, and finally to Helicopters in 1984. Once I tried the Helicopter for the first time, I sold all of my other equipment and focused on Helicopters. When my father developed his first RC Helicopter, I was 7 years old at the time. I remember going to airplane flying events where my father would do demo flights with his Helicopters. Friends like Horace Hagen and Ernie Huber can remember me back when I was this young as they were also going to these types of events in the early 1970's. Having been around RC Helicopters from their early beginnings until now, I have a great appreciation for how the equipment and the sport has improved and grown.

3) What equipment did you use at the beginning?

My first model was a Schluter Mini Boy (Photo Included) purchased in 1985, with a Futaba 4 channel Air radio, and a then state of the art Kraft (KO) Gyro. I remember that the model had a mechanical tail rotor-mixing lever so it could be flown with a standard 4-channel airplane radio. Wow have things changed!

Lens first Heli’s: Schluter Miniboy and Champion Len at the 1990 Schluter Cup in New Jersey

3a) I know your father was one of the first guys that started R/C helicopter flying in the US. Please let us know a little about him and his Lenco helicopters.

As I mentioned, my father (Len Sr.) had been flying airplanes since the mid 1960's. In the late 60's, my father read in a magazine about Dieter Schluter designing and flying the first successful RC Helicopter. After reading this article, my father decided that he wanted to design his own helicopter. He started reading full-scale heli publications from Sikorski to learn about the dynamics of a Helicopter. He then started to develop his first prototype model in our basement using a Unimat to make the aluminum parts. Since he was an expert with fiberglass, he decided to model his helicopter after the Bell Jet Ranger and make his own mold and fuselage. After 6 months of development, he was able to hover the model using a very large tricycle training gear with wheels in the summer of 1971. Once people had heard that my father had a working RC helicopter, he was approached by the US manufacturer Kraft Systems. They offered to buy the design, but my father decided to start a partnership and form a company called "RC Helicopters". My father was also invited by the US government to fly his Jet Ranger at the 1972 Zagreb International Fair where he performed demo flights with the Jet Ranger outside the US Pavilion. (Photo included). They produced the Jet Ranger for about 1 1/2 years before partnership problems closed the business. (Copy of Ad included). The original prototype model has now been restored and placed on exhibit at the AMA museum in Muncie, Indiana (Photo included). This is the actual model that was used in the advertisements, as well as flying at the 1972 Expo and 1972 MAC show. I still to this day cannot understand how my father learned how to fly on this model without a crash, and have it survive several hundred flights. My father then started his own company in 1974 called Lenco Products. He designed and produced his second helicopter completely by himself, and it was called the Lenco 100. This model was unique at the time as it used a plywood front cabin, with a balsa sheeted tail boom, so it could be repaired by the airplane pilot easily.

Click to Enlarge

Original Ad for Len Sr’s Bell Jet Ranger kit, 1972

5) Can you give us an overview of all helicopters you used for competition flying up to today?

1989-1990: Schluter Champion

1991-1992: Kalt Excalibur

1993-1994: Kalt Baron Alpha II

1995-1996: Kalt Grand Prix

1998-1999: JR Ergo 60/ Ergo 60 Sport

2000-2001: JR Vigor/ Vigor CS

6a) Who are your sponsors?

My primary sponsor of product is Horizon Hobby. They supply me with JR and other exclusive brand products like KSJ (K&S), NHP, Revolution, etc. Performance Products (US YS Engine Importer) also helps me on occasion with YS engines and parts.

6b) What does a sponsorship mean in the US? In most European countries it is not the same as for a sports like Tennis, Skiing or else. Flyers are happy to get some parts and do not fly for a living.

The US is very similar. There are very few pilots in the US that can actually make a living flying. The majority of top-level pilots in the US (3D and F3C) are also happy just to get a discount on parts and supplies. There are also less fully sponsored pilots (product only) that most people think. The RC Helicopter industry is just not large enough to fully sponsor competitors like in Tennis, Skiing, etc.

7) You work Horizon Hobby. What are you doing exactly in the company?

My title is Proprietary Product Manager. I manage the daily business for JR Radio and Heli Division, and other exclusive Heli lines like KSJ (K&S), NHP,CSM, and Revolution. I communicate daily with JR Japan directly on new product development, and general business issues. I also work on a daily basis with the JR Marketing Brand Manager Eric Meyers to develop both marketing and product strategies for the JR line. I am also the manager for the US Team JR heli team. This is probably the most rewarding part of my job, especially with the great group of pilots we have assembled in the US. I also write the majority of the US instructions for JR Radios and Helicopters.

7a) Do you work in research & development as well?

I perform much of the R&D testing on helicopter related products and help the manufactures modify and improve the products so they will be a better fit to the US market needs. We sometimes also send out samples to our key team pilots for additional testing, and coordinate and forward the results to the companies to help improve the products before they are offered to the US market.

7b) Which Pilots are flying for Team JR in North America?

As I mentioned, we really have a great group of flyers on team JR Heli. We have a good mix of 3D and Contest pilots. Some of our pilots like Curtis Youngblood, and Scott and Steve Gray are known internationally, while many of our other pilots are known in their region of the US.

8) Do you spend much time flying during your working hours?

Many people might think this, but this is not the case. My position at Horizon is for the business side, and my job involves mainly paperwork and project details during the normal business hours. Most of the R&D testing, and 100% of my contest flying and maintenance is done on my own personal time. Although I happen to be in the hobby industry for a living, my flying is not a requirement for my position, but rather something that I do for my personal enjoyment.

8) How does the national aero club (AMA) support you for World Championships?

I believe that our AMA covers a good majority of the expenses for the trips, with the balance being generated through donation requests from the industry, and product raffles at major events.

9) What would you say was the quantum leap and making you most progress during the time you learned to fly helicopters? (Can be radio, engines, mechanics, blades, a friend or anything else)

I would say that there were several quantum leaps. The first leap was moving up from my 40 size Miniboy to the 60 size Champion. The Champion was a great machine! I was able to learn forward flight, Loops, Rolls, and Autos all in 1 season without a single crash! The next leap was moving from an Analog to a Computer JR PCM10 system. I remember from the first flight after installing the PCM 10 in my Champion, I could not believe how much better I was able to make the model fly with the fine adjustments available through the radio programming. For 3D flying, I would say that the CSM Simulator and the invention of the Heading Lock type gyros allowed me to learn difficult maneuvers that would not have been possible for me to do before.

10) Now we would like to talk about the Vigor you are currently using. Where are the big advantages of this heli? How was the Vigor developed? How will the Kit look like in the future? Please give us the data of your Helis. R/C equipment, engine, muffler, plug, blades,

I believe that the biggest advantages of the Vigor are its simplicity, reliability, and rigidity of the frames. The Vigor requires very little maintenance, which gives me more time to practice. I am also a firm believer in CCPM, especially with the Vigor's 140-degree system. I have flown CCPM for the past 4 seasons, and I would never build a non-CCPM model for my personal use again. The Vigor was developed by Curtis in conjunction with the engineers at JR. Curtis started by taking existing JR parts from the Ergo and Superio series of models, and developed the unique Vigor parts by his own design. Once the design of the Vigor was finalized, I then worked with JR directly with input from Curtis to finalize the manufacturing details to bring the Vigor to market. I am not sure at this point how the Vigor will evolve past the current CS. Curtis and I have been talking about some ideas for the future, but it will likely be some time before these changes reach production.

My current models are as follows for Contest and 3D:

JR Vigor CS 140CCPM

JR PCM10X Radio

JR G5000T Gyro w/8700G Servo

JR DS8411SA Servos (for CCPM)

8.0 to 1 Gear Ratio

YS 80ST Engine

KSJ Muffler

KSJ 50G Carbon Paddles

20% Nitro, 18% Oil Fuel

K&B Long Glow Plug

NHP 700mm Symmetrical Main Blades

NHP 105mm Tail Blades

Changes from Contest to 3D Flying:

Remove additional Flybar weights used for F3C

Change throttle curve slightly in radio programming

Change from stock canopy to Body

My Contest and 3D programs are so similar, I fly 0 degrees pitch @ 1/2 stick for Contest and 3D flying, including Hover for F3C.

10a) What gear ratio and muffler are you using with the YS80 or OS91SX engine? Do you use longer blades with the 91 size engines?

I am currently using an 8.0 to 1 gear ratio with the YS80. I am currently testing the new Webra .91 AAR heli engine with a 7.63 to 1 ratio. I am using 700mm to 710mm Main Rotor blades with these engines.

11) Please give us some more information about the new Eclipse body.

I decided that I wanted a unique body design for the 2002 F3C season as I am working to make the 2003 USA F3C World Team. I had been flying a Rapide fuselage designed by Steve Gray for the past several seasons, but after suffering from poor hovering in the wind at the 2001 US F3C Team Trials, I decided that the fuselage type model was not the direction to go for 2002. I though about the design of the Eclipse, hoping that I would gain the benefit of the fuselage shape in aerobatics, while still having the hovering performance of a pod and boom in the wind since it does not have a boom cover. I also thought that the rear section of the Eclipse Body would help the model be more stable when hovering in strong down wind conditions, as the air cannot get trapped inside the front of the body. I guess that I will find out if these theories will actually work once I do more flight-testing! The Eclipse will not be available for sale at this point as I only have prototype molds to make the bodies that I need for this seasons flying.

Original Eclipse Plug made from foam Len with completed Eclipse at 2002 US Team Trials

12) What do think about the CCPM versus the regular mechanical mixing?

I have been flying CCPM for the past 4 seasons, and I do not see any advantage to a standard mechanical mixing system. I find that the CCPM models have a more crisp response, and stay in trim better as the linkage system does not wear quickly like the mechanical system. I also like the fact that all 3 servos work together to share the surface loads, rather that each servo working alone. I believe that within the next 5 years, it will be difficult to find a new helicopter design with a mechanical mixing system.

13) Now let's talk about your radio system. What are the strong and the weak points? Can you give any hints for programming to our readers? What do think will be the future of radio systems do you have proposals?

I believe that the strong points about the PCM10X are its simplicity, and well thought out programming. Although some pilots believe that you need more features to be competitive, I find that keeping your radio program as simple as possible has worked the best to improve my flying. If I could add anything to the 10X programming right now, it would be the addition of pre-programmed Swashplate mixing when CCPM is activated. Currently, you must use 2 programmable mixes to achieve this adjustment. If I can offer any hints for radio programming, it would be to keep you programming as simple as possible, and do not try to mask or fix a mechanical problem with a program mix. It is always best to make sure that your model is as mechanically perfect as possible. If you take the time on assembly, it will save time at the flying field.

14) What are your thoughts about today's gyros? What gyro are you using currently? Do you have any ideas for future systems?

I feel that today's Gyros have come farther that I would have ever imagined when I started with the mechanical Kraft Gyro. The development of the Heading Lock type gyros has enabled the models and their pilots to improve their flying to levels never thought possible. I would believe that gyros will continue to improve in performance and features as new style sensors are developed. This technology will also most likely continue to reduce in price as well.

15) Do you use a speed regulator? (with what engine & carburetor?) What brand of regulator?

No. I personally believe that speed regulators are needed only as a tool for beginning pilots to advance to aerobatics before they understand how to match a throttle and pitch curve correctly. As you know, since all governors base their speed regulation from the rotor RMP, there is a slight delay in the reaction of the throttle. I believe that a properly matched throttle curve has better performance than you can achieve with any current electronic governor on the market.

16) Do you use the engines just out of the box or special editions?

The engines I use are stock out of the box (;>)). I have experimented recently with engine balancing, but I have yet to confirm if it has made any noticeable improvement in performance. Generally the only modification I will make to an engine is to add or remove head shims as needed to make the model smooth in a hover.

17) After how many flights do you change an engine?

I generally find that I can get 150-200 flights from a YS engine before a noticeable power loss can be felt, provided the engine has been run at a the proper setting.

17a) What do you think about the new limitation of engine sizes?

I am personally in favor of the increase in displacement. I plan to reduce the oil and Nitro content of the fuel so that the smoke is decreased. This will make the model more pleasant to watch for the judges. I also like the lower gear ratios as it also makes the model more quiet and pleasant sounding in hover and aerobatics.

18) Your helicopters run very smooth. Do you use your blades out of the box? Or do you balance them?

I do not balance anything on my model, other than an occasional bit of tracking tape on the main blades. Most new high-end composite blades are balanced perfectly from the factory. I believe that the secret to a smooth running helicopter is a combination of proper mechanical assembly, correct gear mesh, and a smooth running engine.

19) Do you balance any parts like fan, clutch, and gears or else?

I do not balance parts, but rather I dial indicate parts like the Fan, Fan Blades, Clutch, etc. Since these parts are all machined, generally if you can dial indicate these parts within .002" or less, they will most likely also be balanced within reason.

20) Can you pass any general setup hints to our readers?

The best hints that I can give are to spend the time to make your models mechanics as perfect as possible. Next would be to determine at what RPM your specific engine/muffler/fuel prefers, and adjust the rest of your setup and radio programming around this RPM.

21) How long does it take you to set up a machine for FAI?

I am not sure that I am ever finished setting up the model! During practice, I usually experiment with changing the programming of the model (Throttle Curves, Swashplate Timing, exponential, etc) a little each flight to try and improve the setup and the performance continuously. I usually keep 1 model without changes, so I can go back and compare the changes that I have made to see if they have truly made the model fly better. Now that I have a base setup that I use for both my FAI and 3D Vigor's, I can usually get new model ready within 8-10 flights, depending of course on the individual engine.

22) How do you trim your heli for aerobatics? Do you make changes in the swash plate trims and timing?

Yes. For F3A flying, I use 2 flight modes for Aerobatics. Flight mode 1 is used for all aerobatic maneuvers, except for Horizontal rolls. For the Horizontal rolls, I use Stunt Mode 2. The main differences in the programs are that I run a higher throttle curve for Stunt 2, and I will also reduce the Dual Rates and increase expo for the Elevator and Rudder channels. I may also change the Swashplate timing for Stunt 2 as needed. I desensitize the Elevator and Rudder so that I do not accidentally move these surfaces during the roll. I increase the throttle curve, as I like the head speed to be around 1900-1950 for the rolls, as I believe this helps to make the rolls more axial.

23) What do you think about the new FAI programs? Do have a proposal for changes or improvements?

I personally really like the new schedule. I believe that there is a larger degree of difficulty when moving from schedule A to schedule B. I like the way the maneuvers increase in difficulty in schedule B, as you will really need to keep your concentration all the way until the end of the flight.

24) You do some 3D as well. Please explain the differences in your set-up.

As mentioned, aside from the Canopy or Body that I would use, the only other changes that I make to the setup is to remove the additional Flybar weights for FAI, and change the throttle curve (increase) for 3D. I learned this trick from Curtis. I can now fly either FAI or 3D, and the practice helps both disciplines since the models fly very much the same. I generally use my older Vigor's and equipment for 3D flying since the models take more abuse.

25) Please share your ideas for a perfect heli with us.

I believe that the perfect heli (for me) would be easy to assemble, and would require little or no maintenance. It would have more power than you could ever use running 10% or less Nitro with low oil, and would be very quite and pleasing to the spectators. It would use a fuselage that would handle as good in the wind as a pod and boom. Retracts would be a nice option. And of course it would need to be made by JR!

26) How did you manage to be successful for so many years?

I believe that I have been successful because I was born into the hobby, and I truly enjoy what I do. I have also always tried to approach my flying professionally, both with the quality of my models, as well as my relationships with the other pilots at the events. I continuously work to improve my knowledge and understanding of the products, and I also continue to push myself to improve my flying performance.I also enjoy building and designing parts for the models as much as I do flying them.

27) What do you think is the percentage of heli, talent and practice that makes people win?

I personally believe that there are a large number of very talented pilots flying today, and I personally believe that it is the determination, preparation, and persistence of the pilot to succeed that makes a good pilot into an excellent pilot. As for percentages, I believe that if you are doing everything on your own, it is probably 50% flying talent, 30 % set up ability, and 20% equipment that makes people win. If you have someone to handle the assembly and setup, you can then focus more of your time on the flying.

28) Which advises can you give for pilots who want to go FAI?

I would suggest first going to an event in your area, and talking to pilots that are already flying FAI for some advice.

Beyond this, I would suggest spending time initially to perfect the assembly and setup of your model. Once this is accomplished, then you will need to spend time practicing the full schedule (hovering and Aeros), and then focus on the maneuvers you are having the most problems with. The goal is to be very consistent in the performance of all the maneuvers in the schedule. If you have 1 or 2 bad maneuvers, especially if they are in hovering with the K factor of 2, it will really bring down your overall flight scores. I would also suggest doing some 3D flying when possible. I have found that 3D flying improves my orientation, which helps me make the proper corrections during aerobatics much more quickly. I believe that 3D flying helps FAI flying, and vice versa.

29) How many liters of fuel are you burning or how many hours do practice per year?

As we generally have cold weather in Illinois from December through March, I will burn between 50-60 gallons of fuel from April to the end of November. During the flying season, I usually fly 4 flights every evening after work, and 8 flights each day on the weekend. I find that if I practice more than this, my flying is actually not as good as I start to fly the model mechanically, rather than by reaction.

29a) Is it difficult to find a place to practice in the US?

Not for me! I just look out the window of my home and see my F3C practice course, with plenty of room for aerobatics as well. Life does not get any better than this! If you live near large cities in the US like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc, you will sometimes need to drive 45 minutes to 1 hour to get to the flying field. This is one of the reasons why I liked moving to Illinois from New York.

30) Do you have problems due to the heavy smoke while operating the Helis with today's fuel?

We do not receive many complaints in the US about the smoke, but it can make hovering difficult (especially for the judges) if the wind is not blowing. Since changing to the larger displacement engines, I have enjoyed reducing the Nitro and Oil in the fuel to reduce the smoking in a hover.

31) What do you think about simulators? Do you use one?

I think that the simulators are great, and I recommend them to beginning pilots, as well as pilots wanting to learn to 3D fly. They are not of much help for F3C type flying, other than to learn the sequence of maneuvers.

32) What do you think about the different categories like Scale, F3C, Electric & 3D/Freestyle?

I think that they are all very interesting. Although my current interests are F3C and 3D, I am looking forward to working on some scale projects as I grow older and am no longer competitive in F3C and 3D. That's the great thing about this hobby, you can continue to explore new areas of interest regardless of your age. I am now collecting vintage RC helicopters for future projects!

33) What are your plans for the future?

All of my current efforts and focus are based on the goal of trying to earn a position on the 2003 USA F3C World Team. I have planned form this throughout the winter months, and I am now practicing to continue to improve my flying. I would like to make at least 1 USA team before I stop competing in FAI.

Many thanks Len for your detailed answers and spending so much time for this interview. Good luck for the 2002 competition season. We hope to see you in Japan.

Flying Accomplishments

2000 IRCHA FAI Grand National Champion

2001 IRCHA FAI Grand National Champion

1998 US National Championships, FAI 9th Place

1999 US National Championships, FAI 8th Place

2000 US National Championships, FAI 7th Place

2001 US National Championships, FAI 7th Place

1991 US F3C World Team Trials, 16th Place

1999 US F3C World Team Trials, 5th Place

2001 US F3C World Team Trials, 5th Place

2000 Michigan Whirlybirds F3C, 3rd Place

2001 Music City Championships, FAI 3rd Place

1989 SCHLUTER Cup, Intermediate Class, 2nd Place

1989 LIFTS Heli Championships, Intermediate 1st Place

1990 LIFTS Heli Championships, FAI 1st Place

1992 HELI NYS RC Championships, FAI 3rd Place

1998 IRCHA Speed Run 30: 1st Place

1998/2000 IRCHA Closed Course Speed 30, 1st Place

1999/2000 IRCHA Closed Course Speed 60, 1st Place

1998 St. Louis Whirlybirds Freestyle, 2nd place

1997/1998 St. Louis Whirlybirds Advanced Class, 1st Place

Len with Ergo 60 at 1999 USA Nationals Curtis and Len at Len with his JR .21 powered racer at the 1998 IRCHA

the 2001 World Champs